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mn.79 Majjhima Nikāya (Middle Discourses)

Lesser Discourse to Sakuludāyi

Thus have I heard: at one time the Lord was staying near Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove at the squirrels’ feeding place. Now at that time the wanderer Sakuludāyin was living in the wanderers’ park at the peacocks’ feeding place together with a large company of wanderers. Then the Lord, having dressed in the morning, taking his bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for almsfood. Then it occurred to the Lord: “It is too early to walk for almsfood in Rājagaha. Suppose I were to approach the wanderers’ park, the peacocks’ feeding place and the wanderer Sakuludāyin.” Then the Lord approached the peacocks’ feeding place in the wanderers’ park.

Now at that time the wanderer Sakuludāyin was sitting down with the great company of wanderers shouting out with a loud noise, a great noise, talking various kinds of inferior talk that is to say talk on kings, thieves, great ministers, armies, fears, battles, food, drink, clothes, beds, garlands, scents, relations, vehicles, villages, market towns, towns, the country, women, heroes, streets, wells, those departed before, talk of diversity, speculation about the world, speculation about the sea, talk about becoming or not becoming thus or thus. The wanderer Sakuludāyin saw the Lord coming in the distance; seeing him, he called his own company to order, saying: “Good sirs, let there be little noise; do not, good sirs, make a noise; this is the recluse Gotama who is coming. The recluse Gotama wishes for little noise, is trained to little noise, praises little noise. So he may consider approaching if he knows that this is a company of little noise.” Then these wanderers fell silent.

Then the Lord approached the wanderer Sakuludāyin. The wanderer Sakuludāyin spoke thus to the Lord: “Let the revered one come, there is a welcome for the revered one; it is long since the revered one made this opportunity! That is to say for coming here. Let the revered one sit down, this seat is ready.” Then the Lord sat down on the seat that was ready. And the wanderer Sakuludāyin, having taken a low seat, sat down at a respectful distance.

The Lord spoke thus to the wanderer Sakuludāyin as he was sitting down at a respectful distance: “What is the talk for which you are now gathered together here, Udāyin? And what was your talk that was interrupted?” “Let be that talk, revered sir, for which we are now gathered together here. It will not be difficult for the Lord to hear this talk later. When I, Lord, am not near this company, then this company is sitting down talking a variety of inferior talk. But when I, Lord, am near this company, then this company is sitting down gazing at my face, saying: ‘We will listen to whatever dhamma the recluse Udāyin speaks to us.’ But when, Lord, the Lord is near this company, then I and this company are alike sitting down gazing at the Lord's face, and saying: ‘We will listen to whatever Dhamma the Lord speaks to us.’” “Well then, Udāyin, let something occur to you here, so that you can speak it to me.”

“Some time ago, revered sir, one who was all-knowing, all-seeing, claiming all-embracing knowledge-and-vision, said: ‘Whether I am walking or standing still or asleep or awake, knowledge-and-vision is constantly and perpetually before me.’ He, on being asked a question by me concerning the past, shelved the question by (asking) another, answered off the point and evinced temper and ill-will and sulkiness. It was because of this, revered sir, that rapture arose in me respecting the Lord, and I thought: ‘Ah, indeed it is the Lord, ah, indeed it is the Well-farer that is skilled in these matters.’” “But who was this, Udāyin, that all-knowing, all-seeing, claiming all-embracing knowledge-and-vision, said: ‘Whether I am walking or standing still or asleep or awake, knowledge-and-vision is constantly and perpetually before me,’ and who, on being asked a question by you concerning the past, shelved the question by (asking) another, answered off the point and evinced temper and ill-will and sulkiness?” “Revered sir, it was Nātaputta the Jain.”

“Udāyin, whoever could recollect a variety of former habitations, that is to say: One birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, and many an eon of integration and many an eon of disintegration and many an eon of integration-disintegration; such a one was I by name, having such and such a clan, such and such a colour, so was I nourished, such and such pleasant and painful experiences were mine, so did the span of life end. Passing from this, I came to be in another state where such a one was I by name, having such and such a clan, such and such a colour, so was I nourished, such and such pleasant and painful experiences were mine, so did the span of life end. Passing from this, I arose here and could recollect thus in all their mode and detail a variety of former habitations, either he could ask me a question concerning the past or I could ask him a question concerning the past; either he could turn his mind to answering my question concerning the past or I could turn my mind to answering his question concerning the past.

Udāyin, whoever could with the purified deva-vision surpassing that of men behold beings as they are passing hence and coming to be, mean, excellent, comely, ugly, well-going, ill-going according to the consequences of their deeds, thinking: ‘Indeed these worthy beings who were possessed of wrong conduct in body, who were possessed of wrong conduct of speech, who were possessed of wrong conduct of thought, scoffers at the ariyans, holding a wrong view, incurring deeds consequent on a wrong view, these, at the breaking up of the body after dying, have arisen in a sorrowful state, a bad bourn, the abyss, Niraya Hell. But these worthy beings who were possessed of good conduct in body, who were possessed of good conduct in speech, who were possessed of good conduct in thought, who did not scoff at the ariyans, holding a right view, incurring deeds consequent on a right view, these, at the breaking up of the body after dying, have arisen in a good bourn, a heaven world.’

And thus with the purified deva-vision surpassing that of men see beings as they pass hence, as they arise; could comprehend that beings are mean, excellent, comely, ugly, well-going, ill-going according to the consequences of their deeds, either he could ask me a question concerning the future or I could ask him a question concerning the future; either he could turn his mind to answering my question concerning the future or I could turn my mind to answering his question concerning the future.

Wherefore, Udāyin, let be the past, let be the future. I will teach you Dhamma: If this is, that comes to be; from the arising of this, that arises; if this is not, that does not come to be; from the stopping of this, that is stopped.” “But I, revered sir, even to the extent that I have realised this individuality of mine, am not able to recollect it with its mode and detail. How then should I recollect a variety of former habitations, that is to say: One birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, and many an eon of integration and many an eon of disintegration and many an eon of integration-disintegration; such a one was I by name, having such and such a clan, such and such a colour, so was I nourished, such and such pleasant and painful experiences were mine, so did the span of life end. Passing from this, I came to be in another state where such a one was I by name, having such and such a clan, such and such a colour, so was I nourished, such and such pleasant and painful experiences were mine, so did the span of life end. Passing from this, I arose here and say that I recollect a variety of former habitations in all their mode and detail, like the Lord? Then I, revered sir, do not even see a mud-sprite at present. How then should I with the purified deva-vision surpassing that of men behold beings as they are passing hence and coming to be, mean, excellent, comely, ugly, well-going, ill-going according to the consequences of their deeds, thinking: ‘Indeed these worthy beings who were possessed of wrong conduct in body, who were possessed of wrong conduct of speech, who were possessed of wrong conduct of thought, scoffers at the ariyans, holding a wrong view, incurring deeds consequent on a wrong view, these, at the breaking up of the body after dying, have arisen in a sorrowful state, a bad bourn, the abyss, Niraya Hell. But these worthy beings who were possessed of good conduct in body, who were possessed of good conduct in speech, who were possessed of good conduct in thought, who did not scoff at the ariyans, holding a right view, incurring deeds consequent on a right view, these, at the breaking up of the body after dying, have arisen in a good bourn, a heaven world. And thus with the purified deva-vision surpassing that of men see beings as they pass hence, as they arise; and comprehend that beings are mean, excellent, comely, ugly, well-going, ill-going according to the consequences of their deeds, like the Lord? So that when, revered sir, the Lord spoke thus to me: ‘Let be the past, let be the future. I will teach you Dhamma: If this is, that comes to be; from the arising of this, that arises; if this is not, that does not come to be; from the stopping of this, that is stopped.”, then that is not abundantly clear to me. Nevertheless I, revered sir, could satisfy the Lord's mind with an explanation of a question that belongs to our own teachers.”

“What do your own teachers say, Udāyin?” “Revered sir, our own teachers speak thus: ‘This is the highest lustre, this is the highest lustre.’” “But when your own teachers speak thus to you, Udāyin: ‘This is the highest lustre, this is the highest lustre,’ which is this highest lustre?” “Revered sir, there is no other lustre superior to or more excellent than this lustre, it is the highest lustre.” “But which is this lustre, Udāyin, than which there is no other lustre superior or more excellent?” “Revered sir, there is no other lustre superior to or more excellent than that lustre, it is the highest lustre.”

“You would be long in expanding this, Udāyin. You say: ‘Revered sir, there is no other lustre superior to or more excellent than this lustre, it is the highest lustre,’ but you do not point to this lustre. Udāyin, it is as though a man should say: ‘Whoever is the belle of this countryside, I want her, I desire her.’ Another man might say to him: ‘My good man, do you know whether this belle of the countryside whom you want and desire is a noble maiden or a brahmin or a merchant or a worker?’ Asked this, he would say: ‘No.’ The other might say to him: ‘My good man, do you know the name or the clan of this belle of the countryside whom you want and desire?’ Asked this, he would say: ‘No.’ The other might say to him: ‘My good man, do you know whether she is tall or short or of medium height, or dark or brown or sallow; or what village or market town or what town she belongs to?’ Asked this, he might say: ‘No.’ The other might speak to him thus: ‘My good man, do you want and desire her whom you know not, see not?’ Asked this, he might say: ‘Yes.’

What do you think about this, Udāyin? This being so, surely that man's irresponsible talk does not prosper him?” “Certainly, revered sir, this being so, that man's irresponsible talk does not prosper him.” “But even so do you, Udāyin, say: ‘Revered sir, there is no other lustre superior to or more excellent than this lustre, it is the highest lustre.’ But you do not point to this lustre.” “Revered sir, as an emerald jewel, of lovely water, well cut into eight facets, if placed on a pale piece of cloth shines and gleams and glows, of such a lustre is the hale self after dying.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? Of these two lustres, which is the surpassing and more excellent: that emerald jewel, of lovely water, cut into eight facets that, if placed on a pale piece of cloth shines and gleams and glows; or some glow-worm or fire-fly in the dense darkness of the night?” “Why, revered sir, of these two lustres, the surpassing and more excellent is the glow-worm or fire-fly in the dense darkness of the night.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? Of these two lustres, which is the surpassing and more excellent: the glow-worm or fire-fly in the dense darkness of the night or an oil-lamp in the dense darkness of the night?” “Why, revered sir, the oil-lamp.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? Of these two lustres, which is the surpassing and more excellent: the oil-lamp in the dense darkness of the night or a great blaze of fire in the dense darkness of the night?” “Why, revered sir, the great blaze of fire in the dense darkness of the night.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? Of these two lustres, which is the surpassing and more excellent: the great blaze of fire in the dense darkness of the night or the morning star in a clear cloudless sky towards dawn?” “Why, revered sir, the morning star in a clear cloudless sky towards dawn is the surpassing and more excellent of these two lustres.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? Of these two lustres, which is the surpassing and more excellent: the morning star in a clear cloudless sky towards dawn or the moon at its zenith in a clear cloudless sky at midnight on an Observance day, a fifteenth?” “Why, revered sir, on an Observance day, a fifteenth, the moon at its zenith in a clear cloudless sky at midnight.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? Of these two lustres, which is the surpassing and more excellent: the moon at its zenith in a clear cloudless sky at midnight on an Observance day, a fifteenth, or the sun at its zenith in a clear cloudless sky at noonday in the last month of the rains in the autumn?” “Why, revered sir, the sun at its zenith in a clear cloudless sky at noonday in the last month of the rains in the autumn is of these two lustres the surpassing and more excellent.”

“Greater than these are those many deva, Udāyin, who do not share in the brilliance of these moons and suns, that I comprehend. But then I do not say: ‘There is no other lustre superior to or more excellent than this lustre.’ But you, Udāyin, although this lustre of a glow-worm or a fire-fly is feebler and poorer, say it is the highest lustre. And you do not point to that lustre.

“The Lord has settled the talk, the Well-farer has settled the talk.” “But why do you, Udāyin, speak thus: ‘The Lord has settled the talk, the Well-farer has settled the talk?’” “Revered sir, our own teachers speak thus: ‘This is the highest lustre, this is the highest lustre.’ But these teachers of ours, revered sir, on being questioned, cross-questioned and pressed for reasons by the Lord, are empty, void and have fallen short.”

“But, Udāyin, is there a world that is exclusively happy? Is there a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy?” “Revered sir, our own teachers speak thus: ‘There is a world that is exclusively happy; there is a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy.’”

“But, Udāyin, is there a world that is exclusively happy? Is there a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy?” “Revered sir, our own teachers speak thus: ‘There is a world that is exclusively happy; there is a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy.’”

“And which, Udāyin, is this reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy?” “As to this, revered sir, someone, giving up onslaught on creatures, abstains from onslaught on creatures; giving up taking what has not been given, he abstains from taking what has not been given; giving up wrong conduct in regard to sense-pleasures, he abstains from wrong conduct in regard to sense-pleasures; giving up lying speech, he abstains from lying speech; or he lives undertaking a certain asceticism. This, revered sir, is a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? At the time when, giving up onslaught on creatures, he abstains from onslaught on creatures, is the self at that time exclusively happy, or is it happy and sorrowful?” “It is happy and sorrowful, revered sir.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? At the time when giving up taking what has not been given, he abstains from taking what has not been given, is the self at that time exclusively happy, or is it happy and sorrowful?” “It is happy and sorrowful, revered sir.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? At the time when giving up wrong conduct in regard to sense-pleasures, he abstains from wrong conduct in regard to sense-pleasures, is the self at that time exclusively happy, or is it happy and sorrowful?” “It is happy and sorrowful, revered sir.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? At the time when, giving up lying speech, he abstains from lying speech, is the self at that time exclusively happy, or is it happy and sorrowful?” “It is happy and sorrowful, revered sir.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin? At the time when he lives undertaking some asceticism, is the self at that time exclusively happy, or is it happy and sorrowful?” “It is happy and sorrowful, revered sir.”

“What do you think about this, Udāyin?

Is not then the course for realising a world that is exclusively happy one that is both happy and sorrowful?” “The Lord has settled this talk, the Well-farer has settled this talk.” “But why do you, Udāyin, speak thus: ‘The Lord has settled this talk, the Well-farer has settled this talk’?” “Revered sir, our own teachers speak thus: ‘There is a world that is exclusively happy, there is a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy.’ But these teachers of ours, revered sir, on being questioned, cross-questioned and pressed for reasons by the Lord, are empty, void, and have fallen short.

But, revered sir, is there a world that is exclusively happy? Is there a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy?” “There is indeed, Udāyin, a world that is exclusively happy. There is a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy.”

“And which, revered sir, is this reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy?’ “As to this, Udāyin, a monk, aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, enters and abides in the first meditation, which is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought, is born of aloofness and is rapturous and joyful. By allaying initial and discursive thought, the mind subjectively tranquillised and fixed on one point, he enters and abides in the second meditation, which is devoid of initial and discursive thought, is born of concentration and is rapturous and joyful. By the fading out of rapture, he dwells with equanimity, attentive and clearly conscious, and experiences in his person that joy of which the ariyans say: ‘Joyful lives he who has equanimity and is mindful’, and he enters and abides in the third meditation. This, Udāyin, is that reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy.”

“But this, revered sir, is not a reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy. For the world that is exclusively happy might have been already realised.” “Indeed, Udāyin, a world that is exclusively happy could not have been already realised. For this is itself the reasoned course for realising a world that is exclusively happy.”

When this had been said, the wanderer Sakuludāyin's company shouted out with a loud noise, a great noise: “We have heard to here from our own teachers, we have heard to here from our own teachers. We comprehend nothing more beyond this.”

Then the wanderer Sakuludāyin, having quietened those wanderers, spoke thus to the Lord: “But when could that world which is exclusively happy be realised, revered sir?” “As to this, Udāyin, a monk, by getting rid of joy by getting rid of anguish, by the going down of his former pleasures and sorrows, enters and abides in the fourth meditation, which has neither anguish nor joy, and which is entirely purified by equanimity and mindfulness.

As many as are the devata that have uprisen in a world that is exclusively happy, he remains and talks and falls into conversation with these devatas. Indeed, Udāyin, a world that is exclusively happy might have been already realised.”

“Now, revered sir, is it not for realising this world that is exclusively happy that monks fare the Brahma-faring under the Lord?” “No, Udāyin, it is not for the sake of realising this world that is exclusively happy that monks fare the Brahma-faring under me. There simply are, Udāyin, other things superior and more excellent for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me.”

“But what, revered sir, are these things superior and more excellent, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under the Lord?” “As to this, Udāyin, [1 faith] a Tathagata arises in the world, perfected one, fully Self-Awakened One, endowed with (right) knowledge and conduct, Well-farer, knower of the worlds, matchless charioteer of men to be tamed, teacher of devas and men, the Awakened One, the Lord. He makes known this world with the devas, with Māra, with Brahmā, creation with its recluses and brahmans, its devas and men, having realised them by his own super-knowledge. He teaches Dhamma which is lovely at the beginning, lovely in the middle, lovely at the ending, with the spirit and the letter; he proclaims the Brahma-faring wholly fulfilled, quite purified. A householder or a householder's son or one born in another family hears that Dhamma. Having heard that Dhamma, he gains faith in the Tathāgata.

[2 renunciation] Endowed with this faith that he has acquired, he reflects in this way: “The household life is confined and dusty; going forth is of the open; it is not easy for one who lives in a house to fare the Brahma-faring wholly fulfilled, wholly pure, polished like a conch-shell. Suppose now that I, having cut off hair and beard, having put on saffron robes, should go forth from home into homelessness?’ After a time, getting rid of his wealth, be it small or great, getting rid of his circle of relations, be it small or great, having cut off his hair and beard, having put on saffron robes, he goes forth from home into homelessness.

[3 bodily morals/ethics] He, being thus one who has gone forth and who is endowed with the training and the way of living of monks, abandoning onslaught on creatures, is one who abstains from onslaught on creatures; the stick laid aside, the knife laid aside, he lives kindly, scrupulous, friendly and compassionate towards all breathing things and creatures. Abandoning the taking of what is not given, he is one who abstains from taking what is not given; being one who takes (only) what is given, who waits for what is given, not by stealing he lives with a self become pure. Abandoning unchastity, he is one who is chaste, keeping remote (from unchastity), abstaining from dealings with women. [3 speech morals/ethics] Abandoning lying speech, he is one who abstains from lying speech, a truth-speaker, a bondsman to truth, trustworthy, dependable, no deceiver of the world. Abandoning slanderous speech, he is one who abstains from slanderous speech; having heard something here he is not one for repeating it elsewhere for (causing) variance among these (people), or having heard something elsewhere he is not one to repeat it there for (causing) variance among these (people). In this way he is a reconciler of those who are at variance, and one who combines those who are friends. Concord is his pleasure, concord his delight, concord his joy, concord is the motive of his speech. Abandoning harsh speech, he is one who abstains from harsh speech. Whatever speech is gentle, pleasing to the ear, affectionate, going to the heart, urbane, pleasant to the manyfolk, agreeable to the manyfolk, he comes to be one who utters speech like this. Abandoning frivolous chatter, he is one who abstains from frivolous chatter. He is a speaker at a right time, a speaker of fact, a speaker on the goal, a speaker on Dhamma, a speaker on discipline, he speaks words that are worth treasuring, with similes at a right time that are discriminating, connected with the goal.

[4 avoiding bad bodily habits] He comes to be one who abstains from what involves destruction to seed-growth, to vegetable growth. He comes to be one who eats one meal a day, refraining at night, abstaining from eating at a wrong time. He comes to be one who abstains from watching shows of dancing, singing, music. He comes to be one who abstains from using garlands, scents, unguents, adornments, finery. He comes to be one who abstains from using high beds, large beds. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting gold and silver. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting raw grain. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting raw meat. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting women and girls. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting women slaves and men slaves. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting goats and sheep. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting fowl and swine. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting elephants, cows, horses, mares. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting fields and sites. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting messages or going on such. He comes to be one who abstains from buying and selling. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting from cheating with weights. He comes to be one who abstains from accepting from cheating with bronzes. He comes to be one who abstains from cheating with measures. He comes to be one who abstains from the crooked ways of bribery, fraud and deceit.

[3 bodily ethics] He comes to be one who abstains from maiming, murdering, manacling, highway robbery.

[5 contentment] He comes to be contented with the robes for protecting his body, with the almsfood for sustaining his stomach. Wherever he goes he takes these things with him as he goes. As a bird on the wing wherever it flies takes its’ wings with it as it flies, so a monk, contented with the robes for protecting his body, with the almsfood for sustaining his stomach, wherever he goes takes these things with him as he goes.

He, possessed of the ariyan body of moral habit, subjectively experiences unsullied well-being.

[6 Guarding the Six Sense-doors] Having seen a material shape with the eye, he is not entranced by the general appearance, he is not entranced by the detail. If he dwells with this organ of sight uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil unskilled states of mind, might predominate. So he fares along controlling it; he guards the organ of sight, he comes to control over the organ of sight. Having heard a sound with the ear, he is not entranced by the general appearance, he is not entranced by the detail. If he dwells with this organ of hearing uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil unskilled states of mind, might predominate. So he fares along controlling it; he guards the organ of hearing, he comes to control over the organ of hearing. Having smelt a smell with the nose, he is not entranced by the general appearance, he is not entranced by the detail. If he dwells with this organ of smell uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil unskilled states of mind, might predominate. So he fares along controlling it; he guards the organ of smell, he comes to control over the organ of smell. Having savoured a taste with the tongue, he is not entranced by the general appearance, he is not entranced by the detail. If he dwells with this organ of taste uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil unskilled states of mind, might predominate. So he fares along controlling it; he guards the organ of taste, he comes to control over the organ of taste. Having felt a touch with the body, he is not entranced by the general appearance, he is not entranced by the detail. If he dwells with this organ of touch uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil unskilled states of mind, might predominate. So he fares along controlling it; he guards the organ of touch, he comes to control over the organ of touch. Having cognised a mental object with the mind, he is not entranced by the general appearance, he is not entranced by the detail. If he lives with this organ of mind uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil unskilled states of mind might predominate. So he fares along controlling it; he guards the organ of mind, he comes to control over the organ of mind.

If he is possessed of this ariyan control of the (sense-) organs, he subjectively experiences unsullied well-being.

[7 Mindfulness in the Four Postures] Whether he is setting out or returning, he is one who comports himself properly; whether he is looking down or looking round, he is one who comports himself properly; whether he is bending back or stretching out (his arm), he is one who comports himself properly; whether he is carrying his outer cloak, his bowl, his robe, he is one who comports himself properly; whether he is munching, drinking, eating, savouring, he is one who comports himself properly; whether he is obeying the calls of nature, he is one who comports himself properly; whether he is walking, standing, asleep, awake, talking, silent, he is one who comports himself properly.

Possessed of this ariyan body of moral habit and possessed of this ariyan control of the (sense-) organs and possessed of this ariyan mindfulness and clear consciousness, [8 Seclusion] he chooses a remote lodging in a forest, at the root of a tree, on a mountain slope, in a wilderness, in a hill-cave, in a cemetery, in a forest haunt, in the open or on a heap of straw. He, returning from alms-gathering after his meal, sits down cross-legged holding the back erect, having made mindfulness rise up in front of him.

[9 Overcoming the Five Mental Hindrances] He, having got rid of covetousness for the world, lives with a mind devoid of coveting, he purifies the mind of coveting. By getting rid of the taint of ill-will, he lives benevolent in mind; and compassionate for the welfare of all creatures and beings, he purifies the mind of the taint of ill-will. By getting rid of sloth and torpor, he lives devoid of sloth and torpor; perceiving the light, mindful and clearly conscious, he purifies the mind of sloth and torpor. By getting rid of restlessness and worry, he lives calmly, the mind subjectively tranquillised, he purifies the mind of restlessness and worry. By getting rid of doubt, he lives doubt-crossed; unperplexed as to the states that are skilled, he purifies his mind of doubt.

He, by getting rid Of these five hindrances, defilements of a mind and weakening to intuitive wisdom, [10 The Four Meditations] aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, enters and abides in the first meditation, which is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought, is born of aloofness and is rapturous and joyful. This is a thing, Udāyin, superior and more excellent, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me. And again, Udāyin, a monk, by allaying initial and discursive thought, the mind subjectively tranquillised and fixed on one point, enters and abides in the second meditation, which is devoid of initial and discursive thought, is born of concentration and is rapturous and joyful. This is a thing, Udāyin, superior and more excellent, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me. And again, Udāyin, a monk, by the fading out of rapture, dwells with equanimity, attentive and clearly conscious, and experiences in his person that joy of which the ariyans say: ‘Joyful lives he who has equanimity and is mindful’, and he enters and abides in the third meditation. This is a thing, Udāyin, superior and more excellent, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me. And again, Udāyin, a monk, by getting rid of joy, by getting rid of anguish, by the going down of his former pleasures and sorrows, enters and abides in the fourth meditation, which has neither anguish nor joy, and which is entirely purified by equanimity and mindfulness. This too is a thing, Udāyin, superior and more excellent, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me.

[11 The First Super-knowledge, the past] Thus with the mind composed, quite purified, quite clarified, without blemish, without defilement, grown soft and workable, fixed, immovable, he directs his mind to the knowledge and recollection of former habitations, that is to say: one birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, and many an eon of integration and many an eon of disintegration and many an eon of integration-disintegration; such a one was I by name, having such and such a clan, such and such a colour, so was I nourished, such and such pleasant and painful experiences were mine, so did the span of life end. Passing from this, I came to be in another state where such a one was I by name, having such and such a clan, such and such a colour, so was I nourished, such and such pleasant and painful experiences were mine, so did the span of life end. Passing from this, I arose here and could recollect thus in all their mode and detail a variety of former habitations. This too is a thing, Udāyin, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me.

[12 The Second Super-knowledge, the present] Thus with the mind composed, quite purified, quite clarified, without blemish, without defilement, grown soft and workable, fixed, immovable, he directs his mind to the knowledge of the passing hence and coming to be of beings. With the purified deva-vision surpassing that of men he beholds beings as they are passing hence and coming to be, mean, excellent, comely, ugly, well-going, ill-going according to the consequences of their deeds, thinking: Indeed these worthy beings who were possessed of wrong conduct in body, who were possessed of wrong conduct of speech, who were possessed of wrong conduct of thought, scoffers at the ariyans, holding a wrong view, incurring deeds consequent on a wrong view, these, at the breaking up of the body after dying, have arisen in a sorrowful state, a bad bourn, the abyss, Niraya Hell. But these worthy beings who were possessed of good conduct in body, who were possessed of good conduct in speech, who were possessed of good conduct in thought, who did not scoff at the ariyans, holding a right view, incurring deeds consequent on a right view, these, at the breaking up of the body after dying, have arisen in a good bourn, a heaven world. And thus with the purified deva-vision surpassing that of men he sees beings as they pass hence, as they arise; and he comprehends that beings are mean, excellent, comely, ugly, well-going, ill-going according to the consequences of deeds. This too is a thing, superior and more excellent, Udāyin, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me.

[13 The Third Super-knowledge, the future is free of suffering] Thus with the mind composed, quite purified, quite clarified, without blemish, without defilement, grown soft and workable, fixed, immovable, he directs his mind to the knowledge of the destruction of the cankers. He comprehends as it really is: This is anguish, this the arising of anguish, this the stopping of anguish, this the course leading to the stopping of anguish. He comprehends as it really is: These are the cankers, this the arising of the cankers, this the stopping of the cankers, this the course leading to the stopping of the cankers. Knowing thus, seeing thus, his mind is freed from the canker of sense-pleasures and his mind is freed from the canker of becoming and his mind is freed from the canker of ignorance. In freedom the knowledge comes to be: “I am freed”; and he comprehends: Destroyed is birth, brought to a close the Brahma-faring, done is what was to be done, there is no more of being such or so. This too is a thing, superior and more excellent, Udāyin, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me.

These, Udāyin, are the things, superior and more excellent, for the sake of realising which monks fare the Brahma-faring under me.”

When this had been said, the wanderer Sakuludāyin spoke thus to the Lord: “It is excellent, revered sir, excellent, revered sir. It is as if, revered sir, one might set upright what had been upset, or might disclose what was covered, or point out the way to one who had gone astray, or might bring an oil-lamp into the darkness, so that those with vision might see material shapes, even so in many a figure is Dhamma made clear by the Lord. I, revered sir, am going to the Lord for refuge and to Dhamma and to the Order of monks.

May I, revered sir, receive the going forth in the Lord's presence, may I receive ordination?” When this had been said the company of the wanderer Sakuludāyin spoke thus to him: “Do not, good Udāyin, fare the Brahma-faring under the recluse Gotama; do not, good Udāyin, having been a teacher, live as a pupil. As what was once a good water-pot might spring a leak, so would be this performance of the good Udāyin. Do not, good Udāyin, fare the Brahma-faring under the recluse Gotama; do not, good Udāyin, having been a teacher, live as a pupil.”

It was thus that the company of the wanderer Sakuludāyin made for the wanderer Sakuludāyin a stumbling-block in (the way of) the Brahma-faring under the Lord.

Lesser Discourse to Sakuludāyin: The Ninth

- Translator: I.B. Horner

- Editor: Brother Joe Smith


The Shorter Discourse With Sakuludāyī

So I have heard.
At one time the Buddha was staying near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground.
Now at that time the wanderer Sakuludāyī was residing together with a large assembly of wanderers in the monastery of the wanderers in the peacocks’ feeding ground.
Then the Buddha robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.
Then it occurred to him,
“It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.
Why don’t I visit the wanderer Sakuludāyī at the monastery of the wanderers in the peacocks’ feeding ground?”
Then the Buddha went to the monastery of the wanderers.
Now at that time, Sakuludāyī was sitting together with a large assembly of wanderers making an uproar, a dreadful racket. They engaged in all kinds of unworthy talk, such as
talk about kings, bandits, and ministers; talk about armies, threats, and wars; talk about food, drink, clothes, and beds; talk about garlands and fragrances; talk about family, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, and countries; talk about women and heroes; street talk and well talk; talk about the departed; motley talk; tales of land and sea; and talk about being reborn in this or that state of existence.
Sakuludāyī saw the Buddha coming off in the distance,
and hushed his own assembly,
“Be quiet, good sirs, don’t make a sound.
Here comes the ascetic Gotama.
The venerable likes quiet and praises quiet.
Hopefully if he sees that our assembly is quiet he’ll see fit to approach.”
Then those wanderers fell silent.
Then the Buddha approached Sakuludāyī,
who said to him,
“Come, Blessed One!
Welcome, Blessed One!
It’s been a long time since you took the opportunity to come here.
Please, sir, sit down, this seat is ready.”

The Buddha sat on the seat spread out,
while Sakuludāyī took a low seat and sat to one side.
The Buddha said to him,
“Udāyī, what were you sitting talking about just now? What conversation was left unfinished?”
“Sir, leave aside what we were sitting talking about just now.
It won’t be hard for you to hear about that later.
When I don’t come to the assembly, they sit and engage in all kinds of unworthy talk.
But when I have come to the assembly, they sit gazing up at my face alone, thinking,
‘Whatever the ascetic Udāyī teaches, we shall listen to it.’
But when the Buddha has come to the assembly, both myself and the assembly sit gazing up at your face, thinking,
‘Whatever the Buddha teaches, we shall listen to it.’”
“Well then, Udāyī, suggest something for me to talk about.”
“Master Gotama, a few days ago someone was claiming to be all-knowing and all-seeing, to know and see everything without exception, thus: ‘Knowledge and vision are constantly and continually present to me, while walking, standing, sleeping, and waking.’
When I asked them a question about the past, they dodged the issue, distracted the discussion with irrelevant points, and displayed annoyance, hate, and bitterness.
That reminded me of the Buddha:
‘Surely it must be the Blessed One, the Holy One who is so skilled in such matters.’”
“But Udāyī, who was it that made such a claim and behaved in such a way?”
“It was Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta, sir.”
“Udāyī, someone who can recollect their many kinds of past lives, with features and details, might ask me a question about the past, or I might ask them a question about the past.
And they might satisfy me with their answer, or I might satisfy them with my answer.
Someone who, with clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, understands how sentient beings are reborn according to their deeds might ask me a question about the future, or I might ask them a question about the future.
And they might satisfy me with their answer, or I might satisfy them with my answer.
Nevertheless, Udāyī, leave aside the past and the future.
I shall teach you the Dhamma:
‘When this exists, that is; due to the arising of this, that arises.
When this doesn’t exist, that is not; due to the cessation of this, that ceases.’”
“Well sir, I can’t even recall with features and details what I’ve undergone in this incarnation.
How should I possibly recollect my many kinds of past lives with features and details, like the Buddha?
For I can’t even see a mud-goblin right now.
How should I possibly, with clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, see sentient beings passing away and being reborn, like the Buddha?
But then the Buddha told me,
‘Nevertheless, Udāyī, leave aside the past and the future.
I shall teach you the Dhamma:
“When this exists, that is; due to the arising of this, that arises.
When this doesn’t exist, that is not; due to the cessation of this, that ceases.”’ But that is even more unclear to me.
Perhaps I might satisfy the Buddha by answering a question about my own tradition.”
“But Udāyī, what is your own tradition?”
“Sir, it’s this:
‘This is the ultimate splendor, this is the ultimate splendor.’”
“But what is that ultimate splendor?”

“Sir, the ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.”
“But what is that ultimate splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer?”
“Sir, the ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.”
“Udāyī, you could draw this out for a long time.
You say, ‘The ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But you don’t describe that splendor.
Suppose a man was to say,
‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her I desire!’
They’d say to him,
‘Mister, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a merchant, or a worker?’
Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’
They’d say to him,
‘Mister, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or tawny? What village, town, or city she comes from?’
Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’
They’d say to him,
‘Mister, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’
Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’
What do you think, Udāyī?
This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”
“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”
“In the same way, you say, ‘The ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But you don’t describe that splendor.”
“Sir, suppose there was a beryl gem that was naturally beautiful, eight-faceted, well-worked. When placed on a cream rug it would shine and glow and radiate. Such is the splendor of the self that is well after death.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
Which of these two has a finer splendor: such a beryl gem, or a firefly in the dark of night?”
“A firefly in the dark of night, sir.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
Which of these two has a finer splendor: a firefly in the dark of night, or an oil lamp in the dark of night?”
“An oil lamp in the dark of night, sir.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
Which of these two has a finer splendor: an oil lamp in the dark of night, or a bonfire in the dark of night?”
“A bonfire in the dark of night, sir.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
Which of these two has a finer splendor: a bonfire in the dark of night, or the Morning Star in a clear and cloudless sky at the crack of dawn?”
“The Morning Star in a clear and cloudless sky at the crack of dawn, sir.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
Which of these two has a finer splendor: the Morning Star in a clear and cloudless sky at the crack of dawn, or the full moon at midnight in a clear and cloudless sky on the fifteenth day sabbath?”
“The full moon at midnight in a clear and cloudless sky on the fifteenth day sabbath, sir.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
Which of these two has a finer splendor: the full moon at midnight in a clear and cloudless sky on the fifteenth day sabbath, or the sun at midday in a clear and cloudless sky in the last month of the rainy season?”
“The sun at midday in a clear and cloudless sky in the last month of the rainy season, sir.”
“Beyond this, Udāyī, I know very many gods on whom the light of the sun and moon make no impression.
Nevertheless, I do not say:
‘The splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’
But of the splendor inferior to a firefly you say, ‘This is the ultimate splendor.’ And you don’t describe that splendor.”
“The Blessed One has cut short the discussion! The Holy One has cut short the discussion!”
“But Udāyī, why do you say this?”

“Sir, it says this in our own tradition:
‘This is the ultimate splendor, this is the ultimate splendor.’
But when pursued, pressed, and grilled on our own tradition, we turned out to be void, hollow, and mistaken.”
“But Udāyī, is there a world of perfect happiness? And is there a grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness?”
“Sir, it says this in our own tradition:
‘There is a world of perfect happiness. And there is a grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness.’”
“Well, what is that grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness?”
“Sir, it’s when someone gives up killing living creatures, stealing, sexual misconduct, and lying. And they proceed having undertaken some kind of mortification.
This is the grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
On an occasion when someone refrains from killing living creatures, is their self perfectly happy at that time, or does it have both pleasure and pain?”
“It has both pleasure and pain.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
On an occasion when someone refrains from stealing …

sexual misconduct …

lying, is their self perfectly happy at that time, or does it have both pleasure and pain?”
“It has both pleasure and pain.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
On an occasion when someone undertakes and follows some kind of mortification, is their self perfectly happy at that time, or does it have both pleasure and pain?”
“It has both pleasure and pain.”
“What do you think, Udāyī?
Is a perfectly happy world realized by relying on a practice of mixed pleasure and pain?”
“The Blessed One has cut short the discussion! The Holy One has cut short the discussion!”
“But Udāyī, why do you say this?”

“Sir, it says this in our own tradition:
‘There is a world of perfect happiness. And there is a grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness.’
But when pursued, pressed, and grilled on our own tradition, we turned out to be void, hollow, and mistaken.
But sir, is there a world of perfect happiness? And is there a grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness?”
“There is a world of perfect happiness, Udāyī. And there is a grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness.”
“Well sir, what is that grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness?”
“It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption.
As the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, they enter and remain in the second absorption.
With the fading away of rapture, they enter and remain in the third absorption.
This is the grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness.”
“Sir, that’s not the grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness. At that point a perfectly happy world has already been realized.”
“No, Udāyī, at that point a perfectly happy world has not been realized.
This is the grounded path for realizing a world of perfect happiness.”
When he said this, Sakuludāyī’s assembly made an uproar, a dreadful racket,
“In that case, we’re lost, and so are our traditional teachings! We’re lost, and so are our traditional teachings!
We know nothing higher than this!”
Then Sakuludāyī, having quieted those wanderers, said to the Buddha,
“Well sir, at what point is a perfectly happy world realized?”
“It’s when, giving up pleasure and pain, and ending former happiness and sadness, a mendicant enters and remains in the fourth absorption.
There are deities who have been reborn in a perfectly happy world. That mendicant associates with them, converses, and engages in discussion.
It’s at this point that a perfectly happy world has been realized.”
“Surely the mendicants must lead the spiritual life under the Buddha for the sake of realizing this perfectly happy world?”
“No, Udāyī, the mendicants don’t lead the spiritual life under me for the sake of realizing this perfectly happy world.
There are other things that are finer, for the sake of which the mendicants lead the spiritual life under me.”
“But what are those finer things?”
“It’s when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those who wish to train, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed. …
They give up these five hindrances, corruptions of the heart that weaken wisdom.
Then, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, they enter and remain in the first absorption.
This is one of the finer things for the sake of which the mendicants lead the spiritual life under me.
Furthermore, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, a mendicant enters and remains in the second absorption …
third absorption …
fourth absorption.
This too is one of the finer things.
When their mind has become immersed in samādhi like this—purified, bright, flawless, rid of corruptions, pliable, workable, steady, and imperturbable—they extend it toward recollection of past lives.
They recollect many kinds of past lives. That is: one, two, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand rebirths; many eons of the world contracting, many eons of the world expanding, many eons of the world contracting and expanding. They recollect their many kinds of past lives, with features and details.
This too is one of the finer things.
When their mind has become immersed in samādhi like this—purified, bright, flawless, rid of corruptions, pliable, workable, steady, and imperturbable—they extend it toward knowledge of the death and rebirth of sentient beings.
With clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, they see sentient beings passing away and being reborn—inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, in a good place or a bad place. They understand how sentient beings are reborn according to their deeds.
This too is one of the finer things.
When their mind has become immersed in samādhi like this—purified, bright, flawless, rid of corruptions, pliable, workable, steady, and imperturbable—they extend it toward knowledge of the ending of defilements.
They truly understand: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.
They truly understand: ‘These are defilements’ … ‘This is the origin of defilements’ … ‘This is the cessation of defilements’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of defilements’.
Knowing and seeing like this, their mind is freed from the defilements of sensuality, desire to be reborn, and ignorance.
When they’re freed, they know they’re freed.
They understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’
This too is one of the finer things.
These are the finer things for the sake of which the mendicants lead the spiritual life under me.”
When he had spoken, Sakuludāyī said to the Buddha,
“Excellent, sir! Excellent!
As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with good eyes can see what’s there, the Buddha has made the teaching clear in many ways.
I go for refuge to the Buddha, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha.
Sir, may I receive the going forth, the ordination in the Buddha’s presence?”
When he said this, Sakuludāyī’s assembly said to him,
“Master Udāyī, don’t lead the spiritual life under the ascetic Gotama.
You have been a teacher; don’t live as a student.
The consequence for you will be as if a water jar were to become a water jug.
Master Udāyī, don’t lead the spiritual life under the ascetic Gotama.
You have been a teacher; don’t live as a student.”
And that’s how the wanderer Sakuludāyī’s own assembly prevented him from leading the spiritual life under the Buddha.