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sn.12.70 Saṁyutta Nikāya (Linked Discourses)

Susīma

Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrel Sanctuary.

i

Now on that occasion the Blessed One was honoured, respected, esteemed, venerated, and revered, and he obtained robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicinal requisites. The Bhikkhu Saṅgha too was honoured, respected, esteemed, venerated, and revered, and the bhikkhus too obtained robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicinal requisites. But the wanderers of other sects were not honoured, respected, esteemed, venerated, and revered, and they did not obtain robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicinal requisites.

Now on that occasion the wanderer Susīma was residing in Rajagaha along with a large company of wanderers. Then his company said to the wanderer Susīma: “Come, friend Susīma, lead the holy life under the ascetic Gotama. Master his Dhamma and teach it to us. We will master his Dhamma and preach it to the lay people. Thus we too will be honoured, respected, esteemed, venerated, and revered, and we too will obtain robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicinal requisites.”

“All right, friends,” the wanderer Susīma replied. He then approached the Venerable Ānanda and exchanged greetings with him. When they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to him: “Friend Ānanda, I wish to lead the holy life in this Dhamma and Discipline.”

Then the Venerable Ānanda took the wanderer Susīma and approached the Blessed One. He paid homage to the Blessed One, and then he sat down to one side and said to him: “Venerable sir, this wanderer Susīma says that he wishes to lead the holy life in this Dhamma and Discipline.”

“Well then, Ānanda, give him the going forth.” The wanderer Susīma then received the going forth and the higher ordination under the Blessed One.

ii

Now on that occasion a number of bhikkhus had declared final knowledge in the presence of the Blessed One, saying: “We understand: Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.” The Venerable Susīma heard about this, so he approached those bhikkhus, exchanged greetings with them, and then sat down to one side and said to them: “Is it true that you venerable ones have declared final knowledge in the presence of the Blessed One, saying: ‘We understand: Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being’?”

“Yes, friend.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, do you venerable ones wield the various kinds of spiritual power, such that: having been one, you become many; having been many, you become one; you appear and vanish; you go unhindered through a wall, through a rampart, through a mountain as though through space; you dive in and out of the earth as though it were water; you walk on water without sinking as though it were earth; seated cross-legged, you travel in space like a bird; with your hand you touch and stroke the moon and sun so powerful and mighty; you exercise mastery with the body as far as the brahma world?”

“No, friend.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, do you venerable ones, with the divine ear element, which is purified and surpasses the human, hear both kinds of sounds, the divine and human, those that are far as well as near?”

“No, friend.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, do you venerable ones understand the minds of other beings and persons, having encompassed them with your own minds? Do you understand a mind with lust as a mind with lust; a mind without lust as a mind without lust; a mind with hatred as a mind with hatred; a mind without hatred as a mind without hatred; a mind with delusion as a mind with delusion; a mind without delusion as a mind without delusion; a contracted mind as contracted and a distracted mind as distracted; an exalted mind as exalted and an unexalted mind as unexalted; a surpassable mind as surpassable and an unsurpassable mind as unsurpassable; a concentrated mind as concentrated and an unconcentrated mind as unconcentrated; a liberated mind as liberated and an unliberated mind as unliberated?”

“No, friend.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, do you venerable ones recollect your manifold past abodes, that is, one birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, many aeons of world-contraction, many aeons of world-expansion, many aeons of world-contraction and expansion thus: ‘There I was so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance, such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my life span; passing away from there, I was reborn elsewhere, and there too I was so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance, such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my life span; passing away from there, I was reborn here’? Do you thus recollect your manifold past abodes with their modes and details?”

“No, friend.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, do you venerable ones, with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, see beings passing away and being reborn, inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and understand how beings fare on in accordance with their kamma thus: ‘These beings who engaged in misconduct of body, speech, and mind, who reviled the noble ones, held wrong view, and undertook actions based on wrong view, with the breakup of the body, after death, have been reborn in a state of misery, in a bad destination, in the nether world, in hell; but these beings who engaged in good conduct of body, speech, and mind, who did not revile the noble ones, who held right view, and undertook action based on right view, with the breakup of the body, after death, have been reborn in a good destination, in a heavenly world’? Thus with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, do you see beings passing away and being reborn, inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and understand how beings fare on in accordance with their kamma?”

“No, friend.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, do you venerable ones dwell in those peaceful deliverances that transcend forms, the formless attainments, having touched them with the body?”

“No, friend.”

“Here now, venerable ones: this answer and the nonattainment of those states, how could this be, friends?”

“We are liberated by wisdom, friend Susīma.”

“I do not understand in detail, friends, the meaning of what has been stated in brief by the venerable ones. It would be good if the venerable ones would explain to me in such a way that I could understand in detail what has been stated in brief.”

“Whether or not you understand, friend Susīma, we are liberated by wisdom.”

iii

Then the Venerable Susīma rose from his seat and approached the Blessed One. Having approached, he paid homage to the Blessed One, sat down to one side, and reported to the Blessed One the entire conversation he had had with those bhikkhus. The Blessed One said:

“First, Susīma, comes knowledge of the stability of the Dhamma, afterwards knowledge of Nibbāna.”

“I do not understand in detail, venerable sir, the meaning of what was stated in brief by the Blessed One. It would be good if the Blessed One would explain to me in such a way that I could understand in detail what has been stated in brief.”

“Whether or not you understand, Susīma, first comes knowledge of the stability of the Dhamma, afterwards knowledge of Nibbāna.

“What do you think, Susīma, is form permanent or impermanent?” –“Impermanent, venerable sir.”–“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”–“Suffering, venerable sir.”–“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”–“No, venerable sir.”

“Is feeling permanent or impermanent?… Is perception permanent or impermanent?… Are volitional formations permanent or impermanent?… Is consciousness permanent or impermanent?” –“Impermanent, venerable sir.”–“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”–“Suffering, venerable sir.”–“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”–“No, venerable sir.”

“Therefore, Susīma, any kind of form whatsoever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all form should be seen as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

“Any kind of feeling whatsoever … Any kind of perception whatsoever … Any kind of volitional formations whatsoever … Any kind of consciousness whatsoever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all consciousness should be seen as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

“Seeing thus, Susīma, the instructed noble disciple experiences revulsion towards form, revulsion towards feeling, revulsion towards perception, revulsion towards volitional formations, revulsion towards consciousness. Experiencing revulsion, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion his mind is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘It’s liberated. ’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With birth as condition, aging-and-death comes to be’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With existence as condition, birth’?… ‘With clinging as condition, existence’?… … ‘With craving as condition, clinging’?… ‘With feeling as condition, craving’?… ‘With contact as condition, feeling’?… ‘With the six sense bases as condition, contact’?… ‘With name-and-form as condition, the six sense bases’?… ‘With consciousness as condition, name-and-form’? … ‘With volitional formations as condition, consciousness’? … ‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations come to be’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With the cessation of birth comes cessation of aging-and-death’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With the cessation of existence comes cessation of birth’?… ‘With the cessation of clinging comes cessation of existence’?… ‘With the cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you wield the various kinds of spiritual power, such that: having been one, you become many … and exercise bodily mastery as far as the brahma world?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you, with the divine ear element, which is purified and surpasses the human, hear both kinds of sounds, the divine and human, those that are far as well as near?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you understand the minds of other beings and persons, having encompassed them with your own mind?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you recollect your manifold past abodes with their modes and details?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you, with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, see beings passing away and being reborn and understand how beings fare on in accordance with their kamma?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you dwell in those peaceful deliverances that transcend forms, the formless attainments, having touched them with the body?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Here now, Susīma: this answer and the nonattainment of those states, how could this be, Susīma?”

iv

Then the Venerable Susīma prostrated himself with his head at the Blessed One’s feet and said: “Venerable sir, I have committed a transgression in that I was so foolish, so confused, so inept that I went forth as a thief of the Dhamma in such a well-expounded Dhamma and Discipline as this. Venerable sir, may the Blessed One pardon me for my transgression seen as a transgression for the sake of future restraint.”

“Surely, Susīma, you have committed a transgression in that you were so foolish, so confused, so inept that you went forth as a thief of the Dhamma in such a well-expounded Dhamma and Discipline as this. Suppose, Susīma, they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal, and bring him before the king, saying: ‘Sire, this man is a bandit, a criminal. Impose on him whatever punishment you wish.’ The king would say to them: ‘Come, men, bind this man’s arms tightly behind his back with a strong rope, shave his head, and lead him around from street to street and from square to square, beating a drum. Then take him out through the southern gate and to the south of the city cut off his head.’ What do you think, Susīma, would that man experience pain and displeasure on that account?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Although that man would experience pain and displeasure on that account, going forth as a thief of the Dhamma in such a well-expounded Dhamma and Discipline as this has results that are far more painful, far more bitter, and further, it leads to the nether world. But since you see your transgression as a transgression and make amends for it in accordance with the Dhamma, we pardon you for it. For it is growth in the Noble One’s Discipline when one sees one’s transgression as a transgression, makes amends for it in accordance with the Dhamma, and undertakes future restraint.”

- Translator: Bhikkhu Bodhi

- Editor: Blake Walsh


The Wanderer Susīma

So I have heard.
At one time the Buddha was staying near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground.
Now at that time the Buddha was honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed. And he received robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.
And the mendicant Saṅgha was also honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed. And they received robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.
But the wanderers who followed other paths were not honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed. And they didn’t receive robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.
Now at that time the wanderer Susīma was residing at Rājagaha together with a large community of wanderers.
Then his community said to Susīma,
“Reverend Susīma, please lead the spiritual life with the ascetic Gotama.
Memorize that teaching and have us recite it with you.
When we’ve memorized it we’ll recite it to the laity.
In this way we too will be honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed. And we’ll receive robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.”
“Yes, reverends,” replied Susīma. Then he went to Venerable Ānanda, and exchanged greetings with him.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to Ānanda,
“Reverend Ānanda, I wish to lead the spiritual life in this teaching and training.”
Then Ānanda took Susīma to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him,
“Sir, this wanderer Susīma says that
he wishes to lead the spiritual life in this teaching and training.”
“Well then, Ānanda, give Susīma the going forth.”
And the wanderer Susīma received the going forth, the ordination in the Buddha’s presence.
Now at that time several mendicants had declared their enlightenment in the Buddha’s presence:
“We understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’”
Venerable Susīma heard about this.


He went up to those mendicants, and exchanged greetings with them.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to those mendicants,
“Is it really true that the venerables have declared enlightenment in the Buddha’s presence?”

“Yes, reverend.”
“But knowing and seeing thus, do you wield the many kinds of psychic power? That is, multiplying yourselves and becoming one again; going unimpeded through a wall, a rampart, or a mountain as if through space; diving in and out of the earth as if it were water; walking on water as if it were earth; flying cross-legged through the sky like a bird; touching and stroking with the hand the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful. Do you control the body as far as the Brahmā realm?”
“No, reverend.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus do you, with clairaudience that is purified and superhuman, hear both kinds of sounds, human and divine, whether near or far?”
“No, reverend.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you understand the minds of other beings and individuals, having comprehended them with your mind?
Do you understand mind with greed as ‘mind with greed’,
and mind without greed as ‘mind without greed’?
Do you understand mind with hate as ‘mind with hate’,
and mind without hate as ‘mind without hate’?
Do you understand mind with delusion as ‘mind with delusion’,
and mind without delusion as ‘mind without delusion’?
Do you understand constricted mind as ‘constricted mind’,
and scattered mind as ‘scattered mind’?
Do you understand expansive mind as ‘expansive mind’,
and unexpansive mind as ‘unexpansive mind’?
Do you understand mind that is not supreme as ‘mind that is not supreme’,
and mind that is supreme as ‘mind that is supreme’?
Do you understand mind immersed in samādhi as ‘mind immersed in samādhi’,
and mind not immersed in samādhi as ‘mind not immersed in samādhi’?
Do you understand freed mind as ‘freed mind’,
and unfreed mind as ‘unfreed mind’?”
“No, reverend.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you recollect many kinds of past lives. That is: one, two, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand rebirths; many eons of the world contracting, many eons of the world expanding, many eons of the world contracting and expanding? Do you remember: ‘There, I was named this, my clan was that, I looked like this, and that was my food. This was how I felt pleasure and pain, and that was how my life ended. When I passed away from that place I was reborn somewhere else. There, too, I was named this, my clan was that, I looked like this, and that was my food. This was how I felt pleasure and pain, and that was how my life ended. When I passed away from that place I was reborn here.’ Do you recollect your many kinds of past lives, with features and details?”
“No, reverend.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you, with clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, see sentient beings passing away and being reborn—inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, in a good place or a bad place—and understand how sentient beings are reborn according to their deeds? ‘These dear beings did bad things by way of body, speech, and mind. They spoke ill of the noble ones; they had wrong view; and they chose to act out of that wrong view. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell. These dear beings, however, did good things by way of body, speech, and mind. They never spoke ill of the noble ones; they had right view; and they chose to act out of that right view. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm.’ And so, with clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, do you see sentient beings passing away and being reborn—inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, in a good place or a bad place. And do you understand how sentient beings are reborn according to their deeds?”
“No, reverend.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you have direct meditative experience of the peaceful liberations that are formless, transcending form?”
“No, reverend.”
“Well now, venerables, how could there be such a declaration when these things are not attained?”
“Reverend Susīma, we are freed by wisdom.”
“I don’t understand the detailed meaning of what you have said in brief.
Please teach me this matter so I can understand the detailed meaning.”
“Reverend Susīma, whether you understand or not, we are freed by wisdom.”
Then Susīma went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side,
and informed the Buddha of all he had discussed with those mendicants.
“Susīma, first comes knowledge of the stability of natural principles. Afterwards there is knowledge of extinguishment.”
“Sir, I don’t understand the detailed meaning of what you have said in brief.
Please teach me this matter so I can understand the detailed meaning.”
“Susīma, whether you understand or not, first comes knowledge of the stability of natural principles. Afterwards there is knowledge of extinguishment.
What do you think, Susīma?
Is form permanent or impermanent?”
“Impermanent, sir.”
“But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?”
“Suffering, sir.”
“But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus:
‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”
“No, sir.”
“Is feeling permanent or impermanent?”
“Impermanent, sir.”
“But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?”
“Suffering, sir.”
“But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus:
‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”
“No, sir.”
“Is perception permanent or impermanent?”
“Impermanent, sir.” …
“Are choices permanent or impermanent?”
“Impermanent, sir.”
“But if they’re impermanent, are they suffering or happiness?”
“Suffering, sir.”
“But if they’re impermanent, suffering, and perishable, are they fit to be regarded thus:
‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”
“No, sir.”
“Is consciousness permanent or impermanent?”
“Impermanent, sir.”
“But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?”
“Suffering, sir.”
“But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus:
‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”
“No, sir.”
“So, Susīma, you should truly see any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: all form—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
You should truly see any kind of feeling at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: all feeling—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
You should truly see any kind of perception at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: all perception—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
You should truly see any kind of choices at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: all choices—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
You should truly see any kind of consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: all consciousness—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
Seeing this, a learned noble disciple grows disillusioned with form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness.
Being disillusioned, desire fades away. When desire fades away they’re freed. When they’re freed, they know they’re freed.
They understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’
Susīma, do you see that rebirth is a condition for old age and death?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Do you see that continued existence is a condition for rebirth?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Do you see that grasping is a condition for continued existence?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Do you see that craving is a condition for grasping?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Do you see that feeling is a condition for craving …
contact is a condition for feeling …
the six sense fields are conditions for contact …
name and form are conditions for the six sense fields …
consciousness is a condition for name and form …
choices are a condition for consciousness …
ignorance is a condition for choices?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Do you see that when rebirth ceases old age and death cease?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Do you see that when continued existence ceases rebirth ceases?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Do you see that when grasping ceases continued existence ceases …
when craving ceases, grasping ceases …
when feeling ceases, craving ceases …
when contact ceases, feeling ceases …
when the six sense fields cease, contact ceases …
when name and form cease, the six sense fields cease …
when consciousness ceases name and form cease …
when choices cease consciousness ceases …
when ignorance ceases choices cease?”
“Yes, sir.”
“But knowing and seeing thus, do you wield the many kinds of psychic power? …”
“No, sir.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus do you, with clairaudience that is purified and superhuman, hear both kinds of sounds, human and divine, whether near or far?”
“No, sir.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you understand the minds of other beings and individuals, having comprehended them with your mind? …”
“No, sir.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you recollect many kinds of past lives, with features and details?”
“No, sir.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you, with clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, see sentient beings passing away and being reborn … according to their deeds?”
“No, sir.”
“Well, knowing and seeing thus, do you have direct meditative experience of the peaceful liberations that are formless, transcending form?”
“No, sir.”
“Well now, Susīma, how could there be such a declaration when these things are not attained?”
Then Venerable Susīma bowed with his head at the Buddha’s feet and said,
“I have made a mistake, sir. It was foolish, stupid, and unskillful of me to go forth as a thief in such a well-explained teaching and training.
Please, sir, accept my mistake for what it is, so I will restrain myself in future.”
“Indeed, Susīma, you made a mistake. It was foolish, stupid, and unskillful of you to go forth as a thief in such a well-explained teaching and training.
Suppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal and present him to the king, saying:
‘Your Majesty, this is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.’
The king would say:
‘Go, my men, and tie this man’s arms tightly behind his back with a strong rope. Shave his head and march him from street to street and from square to square to the beating of a harsh drum. Then take him out the south gate and there, to the south of the city, chop off his head.’
The king’s men would do as they were told.
What do you think, Susīma?
Wouldn’t that man experience pain and distress because of that?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Although that man would experience pain and distress because of that,
going forth as a thief in such a well-explained teaching and training has a more painful and bitter result. And it even leads to the underworld.
But since you have recognized your mistake for what it is, and have dealt with it properly, I accept it.
For it is growth in the training of the Noble One to recognize a mistake for what it is, deal with it properly, and commit to restraint in the future.”